 David Nathan catches up with those renowned rappers, Isaac Hayes and Millie Jackson, who recently teamed up for their "Royal Rappin's" project. Let the rap commence…
MS. Millie Jackson and Mr. Isaac Hayes are proud to announce the delivery of one new album, their first together. So B&S, ever anxious to be first with the news, naturally decided to take some time out with these expert rappers about their appropriately-entitled album, "Royal Rappin's"!
MILLIE Jackson is not-quite-firmly ensconced in her midtown Manhattan office and in between phone calls, a conversation about the difficulty of finding a good secretary, references to another female star whose album cover may be considered less than flattering (bet that got y'all guessing!) and miscellaneous other topics of interest, the convivial and ever-jovial Ms. J. conducts our interview, the focal point of which is her duet album with Isaac Hayes.
"We have so much in common," notes the exhuberant Millie, "that it seemed like a good idea. What really happened was that I had wanted to record the Anne Murray tune, "You Needed Me" and I'd tried it on my own and it just didn't work — it was horrible! It sounded like it would be right as a duet — so I called Isaac and just asked him about doing an album together — and he said fine. So you could say that the one song inspired the whole thing — not the devil!" beams Millie.
The lady points out that "I did 'If Loving You Is Wrong' which, apparently was originally written for Isaac and which he later recorded and I was doing 'Phoenix' way back in my show. It was fantastic working with him — he's a great guy. Brad (Shapiro — who co-produces all of Millie's work with her) worked with me on the project and we selected the material. I'm particularly happy with one tune we did — 'If I Had My Way' which Ike does as a solo and then the sequel, 'If You Had Your Way' which I do, complete with rap in between!"
For those who may want to know, there are the famous raps for which both performers are famous throughout the album but it isn't overdone — although Millie sneaked one of her X-rated pieces in there! "When we'd finished — Isaac and I did sing together, the vocals were done at the same time — I went in and changed one of the raps just a little!"
Without giving away too much, let's such say that Millie's rap refers to Isaac's (bald) head and when he heard it "he said, 'wow Millie, why did ya go and do that — you're gonna get me into a whole load of trouble now!' But I'm sure he dug it — it adds that extra spice to the album!"
SPICE — raunch or whatever you want to call it — is that famous ingredient that Ms. Jackson injects into quite a lot of her work. Take for instance her next album, recorded live in Los Angeles at the Roxy "because the sound system there is good and George Benson did his there and it didn't do him any harm!". It contains a true classic — Millie's own classical aria known as "Phuck — U".
"It was just an idea we had and I'm sure the radio stations won't play it — but it's sure to help sell the album because people love controversy!" Millie's certainly a pioneer because we don't know of too many other ladies who would have the courage to come up with such innovative pieces of music!
On a more serious note, the album (complete with Millie's usual comic comments to the audience) contains her special versions of Toto's "Hold The Line" and the old Delfonics' tune, "Didn't I Blow Your Mind". "It seems that the record company feel that this particular album is going to be a biggie — it may be a double, I don't know yet — it depends on the economy!"
Millie says that the current economic situation hasn't really affected her too harshly. "It's probably quite hard on people who haven't built up a track-record but I have a good following of folks who know what to expect from me plus I don't do those real big stadiums — I still play those clubs where the folks just come out anyway."
Noting that her more loyal fans will "come to see me whether it's at the Roxy or in Watts!", Millie says that her last album, "A Moment's Pleasure" didn't quite make it to gold "partly because of the economy. We had a couple of tunes on there that people dug and the radio people played but the single, 'Never Change Your Lovers' didn't really take off. But I must say that these days, the r&b records are still selling. You see, people may be dancing to the disco records but that doesn't mean they're buying them whereas with the r&b stuff, they buy it and dance to it!"
Millie notes that she "still don't get that much airplay — I guess I haven't been recognised to that point of being on a certain level — but they damn sure can't ignore me! Not that I care, as long as I keep selling records — that's just fine with me."
NATURALLY, Millie's penchant for comedy has already been seen on stage but as yet, her ability as an all-round entertainer with a bent towards humour hasn't yet been exploited either on the big or the little screen.
"It's not that I don't wanna do a movie or a TV thing — they just ain't asked me! But maybe one day. I'd like to be still entertaining for quite a few years and maybe by the time I get to be 60, people will let me just get up and tell jokes instead of having to sing — maybe like Moms Mabley!"
Millie did divulge that there are however possible plans for her to appear on Broadway "although it's just a matter of seeing how the albums do — if they really take off — both mine and the one with Isaac — it could really make that a reality". Millie has already been involved with a concept show — she toured with The Moments in a soul soap opera-type package last year noting that "people who saw it loved it but just not enough people saw it!" — and says that if the Broadway situation materialised, it would involve more than just singing, it would be more of a total show.
Meanwhile, the lady's off to South Africa for the first time — "I was in Kenya last year and they just treated me like a queen — I just didn't get a chance to go out of the hotel because the people went crazy. I toned the show down a little — although I gave them one good 'sh-t' at the beginning and they loved it!" — for about a month during which time she will be playing to integrated audiences.
"I guess I must be pretty big there because I'll be playing two weeks at one place which holds a couple of thousand per night."
Next year, Millie plans "to spend less time on the road — maybe just do two tours one in the spring and one in the fall and record in between." With two children to take care of — Keisha (13) and Jerroll (3), Millie says she has her hands full. "My son looks like he's gonna really get into music — although you never know! He could just turn around and do something completely different — right now, I can't get him away from the music speakers! And my daughter's beginning to start doing little talent contests and stuff at school — so she might be the one to follow into mom's footsteps!"
Well, if she does, she certainly won't be doing the wrong thing with Millie Jackson continuing in her career as one of the music scene's true characters!
"MILLIE just called and said, 'hey Ike, do you wanna do an album?' and I had to think about it. Then I said I didn't mind and once I was committed to it, I just left it with Millie and Brad to come up with the material — I just went in and sang!"
So speaks Isaac Hayes, taking time out from working in the studios in his hometown Atlanta on his next album project. He continues: "It was a lot of fun, really! Working with Millie is great — although it was kinda strange for me being produced by someone else, I'm used to doing it all on my own, But I found I could trust Millie with the whole thing and she's really a great person — we have a lot of similarities.
"Once you get past the image that people have created of her as being a particularly raunchy kind of performer, you realise that she's a very sensitive person, she's a romantic at heart. You only have to look at the kind of ballads she chose — tunes like 'You Needed me' — plus she can sing her natural ass off!"
Isaac feels that the project was "definitely worthwhile — although whether we'll be able to tour together is a whole other thing because right now I'm concentrating on working in the studio as opposed to performing."
Which brings us conveniently to the subject of Isaac's new solo album, "Don't Let Go" which seems to be doing real well for him right now, "The album's getting real good reaction from everywhere and I think it's a combination of a few factors — the material is good and having the record company really behind this one makes all the difference. Polydor have really improved their whole distribution and marketing set up since I joined the company. It's a plus too having people really dig the album — those people in the company who are working with it."
Isaac feels that more people are getting into songs these days, a move which he naturally welcomes. "I think the disco thing may have been exploited just too much and people are saying, hey, let's get back to some music with solid meaning to it. It was kinda compromising for me to do disco although we re-did a version of "Shaft" last year because I kept getting people ask me to do that."
He says that songs like "Few More Kisses To Go" "are the kind of thing I think people want to hear — I find that I can always reach out and find a good song, it's just about evaluating the commercial aspect of the tunes and whether the people will like them."
Famous for his raps (the Haynes album "Hot Buttered Soul" having been acknowledged as a legendary set, a milestone in contemporary music), Isaac says that his current album doesn't contain any "and people have asked where all the 'love-making stuff' is! But I decided to stay away from that because people expected it for a long time, I could have become much too predictable and just one of a whole bunch of people that were doing it. However, I just may do some rappin' on the next album — we'll see!"
AFTER a couple of years out of the chart limelight, Isaac is determined "to re-affirm my position in the market place. I want people to know I'm back and I'm here to stay. I'm still in a rebuilding process with my career and that's one of the reasons I haven't done any heavy touring.
"Frankly, at this time, the concert situation just isn't lucrative enough for me to just go out there and do it for the sake of doing it. I could play smaller venues but there's only so much money out there right now that people are willing to spend on coming to concerts and there are quite enough folks out there performing as it is. I definitely had to make the decision recently about the whole touring thing — and I opted to go back into the studios instead, partly because of the reaction that this new album got. It kinda put us on a real high to see people responding the way they have — so we decided to go right back in while the momentum is up there."
Isaac says that the next album "won't be that much drastically different — but with each new album project, I'd like to think we do better. We try to stay in touch without losing identity — that's real important. I think that a lot of my music was kinda ahead of its time and much of it could be considered contemporary today, things we did in the early 70s. But I recognise the need for change and you know, people are funny, change can be a difficult thing for them.
"But, being a creative person, that's what you've got to do — change but remain true to yourself and what you're about!"
Isaac plans to inject some of that special Hayes' production magic into a project he'll be working on at the beginning of next year. "I'm going to be taking my whole group — the singers (Hot, Buttered & Soul) and the musicians — into the studio. With so many self-contained acts out here, I think we could build the unit up and even to the point where they might tour completely separately from me, whilst I still produce them."
Isaac feel that "it's always easier producing yourself because you know what you want — whereas with other people, you have to really study what they are all about, learn their good points, their weak points and deal with it. It takes more time, naturally, then, working with someone else."
THE gentleman's expertise as a producer, of course, goes without saying. As a stalwart of the whole Stax operation during the mid-Sixties and early-Seventies, he and partner David Porter spent many hours working with some of the musical legends of our time: Sam & Dave, Carla Thomas, The Soul Children, The Staples, The Emotions and of course, the late and truly great Otis Redding. Aside from masterminding the sessions, Ike and David also wrote some of the songs that have gone on to become classics.
"No, we didn't even think we were writing tunes that would last," he laughs. "In fact, we were just two enthusiastic young songwriters who were just really enjoying what we were doing and we had no idea some of the tunes would last so long."
With The Blues Brothers providing one particular evergreen with a new lease of life — the famous Sam & Dave tune, "Soul Man" — Isaac feels the time is right for some of the other tunes to be revived. "I'm working with a young singer that my wife is managing on re-cutting 'You Don't Know Like I Know' and I understand that there's a new version of 'Hold On, I'm Coming' out now. I think there's one particular song that we wrote that I'd really like to hear done today — the tune that Mabel John cut, 'Your Good Thing (Is About To End)' which Lou Rawls did over a few years later."
As far as some of his former Stax colleagues go, Isaac thinks that the reason some of them haven't re-emerged is "just down to the fact that they haven't been able to come up with the right combination of material and producers. As far as I'm concerned the talent is most definitely still there. It's just about making the appropriate adjustments to today's scene."
He still visits Memphis, the former home of Stax, "and I think they're trying hard to revive the music scene and I'd be happy to contribute to that" since much of Isaac's family still calls the city his home.
Mr. Hayes himself re-located to Atlanta about a year ago from Los Angeles "because I'm still a Southern person — I like the South. I found that Atlanta has that flair, the Eastern growth combined with the relaxed atmosphere you find in the South. Plus there are a lot of talented people down here." Isaac recently participated in the city's music week "so I guess they've adopted me now!"
WITH his duet album with Millie out, and his own album doing well, Isaac has the additional bonus of being represented on the charts with a tune that he co-wrote which is contributing towards giving Dionne Warwick a hit album presently.
"I'd written the melody quite a while back and even recorded the track and when Dionne heard it — she's a good friend of mine — she loved it and told me she really wanted the song. I hadn't written any lyrics but as she got nearer to her time to record, she just kept calling me. In the end I sent her the melody and her producer, Barry Manilow, helped to acquire some lyrics for it. The result was "Deja Vu" which I think is a really nice song. In fact, I'm going to be putting my voice on the track now too — just to see what it sounds like!"
About the Writer
David Nathan is the founder and CEO of SoulMusic.com and began his writing career in 1965; beginning in 1967, he was a regular contributor to Blues & Soul magazine in London before relocating to the U.S. in 1975 where he served as U.S. editor for the publication for several decades and began being known as 'The British Ambassador Of Soul.' From 1988 to 2004, he wrote prolifically for Billboard, has penned bios, produced and written liner notes for box sets and reissue CDs for over a thousand projects. He returned to London in 2009 where he has helped create SoulMusic.com Records as a leading reissue label.
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